so if you suffer from middle-of-the-night insomnia, ask your doctor about intermezzo and return to sleep again. ♪ your soups are so awesomely delicious my husband and i can't stop eating 'em! what's...that... on your head? can curlers! tomato basil, potato with bacon... we've got a lot of empty cans. [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. well, at the top of the show we were asking you why you're awake. john tower, let us know. >> we have two quick clikdz.

i'm picking a friend up from prison. good day. >> what do do you first? like, is it pancakes? what else do you have? >> one from the perry account, bill, tired of this unseasonable warmth, bring back the sweater weather, brother. >> it's coming back. it is strange the last few days, sweaters and t-shirts out and, yeah, we're still in january, folks. february is tomorrow. much colder for on the eastern seaboard. just want to say, happy 40th birthday, buddy. stuckey here is 40. we won't be cheesy and do the whole lordy lordy thing or over the hill. maybe a shave in the back here would be nice. maybe tomorrow. "morning joe" starts right now. great show. if you couldn't find for your business a more sustainable choice to sell to -- >> i think it is sustainable. what is not sustainable about it? >> you had an opportunity to

make a statement, probably, about your principles, and some people would feel -- and for me as well -- i thought it was an odd move. not because of some of the other things, but because it is backed by fossil fuel money. >> i get it. i get it. i get it. but it was an easy choice after doing the diligence on the network itself. they do an excellent job. >> can you see at home how people might think -- >> absolutely. >> he's asking me in my life to make choices about light bulbs and a cost benefit analysis for the purpose of sustainability when i just want to see my book. >> that was a different approach than we took yesterday. welcome, everyone, to "morning joe." good morning. it's thursday, january 31st. with us on set, we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle. msnbc political analyst and visiting professor at nyu, former democratic congressman, harold ford jr. >> good morning. >> morning. >> professor, wow. >> and in washington, nbc news capitol hill correspondent, kelly o'donnell. willie, good morning. >> good morning, mika.

>> how you doing? >> i'm doing great. >> that made me a little uncomfortable. >> why? >> jon stewart was being awfully tough on al gore. >> oh, really? i don't think so. i think he gave him a pass. >> you asked him a couple of questions. >> we asked him the same question. i didn't really get an answer. he kind of went all over the place. it was like major big-picture analysis to the point where you almost find him in the clouds. >> there's not really an answer to that, is there? >> took money from oil to get money for his book. >> i don't mean to say this -- well, i guess i'm just going to say it. it's kind of like jim baker. jim and tammy faye bakker. you know, that sexual morality was at the center of everything he did, and then he gets busted with jessica hahn. i can't believe i remember her name. >> wow, there's so many disturbing thoughts there. >> i used to watch larry king in

the '80s. al gore -- i mean, he has been a missionary for climate change, preaching against fossil fuels, and he got 100 million -- what was it, $100 million? >> that's the report. >> $100 million of oil money. it wasn't media money. it's not like they're making money at al jazeera. he got $100 million in oil money. >> so his argument is their coverage of climate change is extremely good, but you know what? i am sure somebody else would have bought his book. so it really -- i have to tell you, it doesn't look good. >> could have bought the network, but $100 million. >> could have bought his own book. i don't know. yeah, i didn't get an answer. i'm not sure it's fair. maybe he's doing something productive with the money. >> i hope so. i hope so. hey, did you see that clown show? >> which one? >> the gun show. >> oh. >> the hearings. the gun hearings. did you see the clown showdown in washington, d.c.? all of these people, all these images of these, you know, little mama with a baby.

needs an assault weapon to defend her little babies. and if we don't give them a clip with 30 -- >> these not going to be safe. >> high-capacity magazine, she's not going to be safe. she can't lock and load. >> do you think it would be good if i had a high-capacity magazine? >> no. especially not on 'roids. >> i have a rifle. okay. >> the suggestion, though, that a mom needs a bushmaster to protect her children and her house, we don't give her that with a high-capacity magazine, that somehow we're -- come on. >> we need to show that. >> you're talking about senator lindsey graham. he showed the chart. >> this lady. >> the woman had a gun. she had a .38, six shots in it. he said an intruder comes in, she's in the closet protecting her children, she gets off six shots, five strike the guy, but it wasn't enough to kill him. so that if she had the ar-15 or a semiautomatic weapon, she

would have been able to kill him. he fled, she killed, but he's saying she would have been able to kill him, not just strike him down. >> this is just a sick conversation. >> but it's part of -- there's a similar thread to all of this, and it's fear. you listen to wayne lapierre yesterday, it's fear. gun sales are driven by fear. his opposition to background checks is driven by trying to inject fear into the culture. it's all fear based. >> and -- >> i thought mark kelly was the best of all. >> we're going to show all this because there was such powerful testimony on capitol hill. >> did you see it? >> it was great. i got a big laugh out of wayne lapierre. he actually trotted out the survivalist argument. >> i know. i saw it. we're going to show it. >> we might have a hurricane, and then it's going to be like stephen king, zombies. you know, you get three shots into a zombie, seriously.

did anybody read "the road"? did anybody read "the road"? has nobody seen "the book of eli"? has nobody seen "the book of eli," really? that gary oldman character, he's scary. and if you just have a glock -- >> okay. >> you won't see a bible. >> no, you are cooked. a street sweeper. >> i need my bushmaster because the zombies are coming after me. there's going to be a tornado. the power grid's going down. locusts are going to descend from heaven. is glenn beck still selling survival seats, willie geist? >> i didn't get the subscription when he went to the new network. he did have those ads on fox but i haven't seen them lately. >> i need survival seats now. >> i'm going to get you some for your birthday. >> i think with every bushmaster

that is sold, the nra ought to give coupons to "the book of eli" and get "the road," which is a great book. of course, zombies, people eating people, end of the world-type stuff. >> okay. so we will get to this ridiculous testimony on capitol hill as well as some of the powerful testimony in just a moment. i want to do these other stories first. you have to stay with me here. come on, now. >> they had a bushmaster. they tried to eat them, lock and load. >> what do i do? >> he almost died in the driveway. he almost -- denzel almost died, if he had a bushmaster or anyone -- a rocket launcher -- >> come here, now. it's all right. >> have you seen "the book of eli"? >> i have. it's a great underrated movie. >> you know what else i saw? i just saw it. denzel, man, "flight." >> that's good. that's good. flying upside down. >> there are good movies this year. >> flying upside down. >> including -- >> you know -- >> okay. >> the stewardess had a

bushmaster, she could have shot him before he got on the plane. >> now i'm going to do the top story. cut his mike. today the white house is facing a new set of challenges after the commerce department reported yesterday that the nation's economy shrank for the first time since the great recession. >> how did that happen? >> well, government data shows the gross domestic product contracted at a .1% rate in the fourth quarter of 2012. it was the first decline since 2009. it put the white house on the defensive after months of touting steady job growth. >> there's more work to do, and our economy is facing a major headwind which goes to your point, and that's republicans in congress. talk about letting the sequester kick in, as though that were an acceptable thing belies where republicans were on this issue not that long ago, and it makes clear, again, that this is political brinksmanship of the kind that results in one primary

victim, and that's american taxpayers, the american middle class. >> okay. what do you think is going on there, joe? >> i think what's going on is that we have spent more money as a government over the past four years than we have in the history of the republic. added $6 trillion in debt. and we have just been on a keynesian spending spree, and the economy's contracting. the idea is, the federal government put some money in, and that's going to create larger job growth across america. it just hasn't happened. so the question is how long do we make this bet? >> robert reich writes about consumer confidence in "the huffington post." "the stock market is bullish because corporate profits are up, costs are down, the fiscal cliff agreement has locked in low taxes for most of the upper-middle class and wealthy, and there's no sign of inflation as far as the eye can see. but corporate profits can't stay

high when american consumers whose spending is 70% of the u.s. economy are this pessimistic about the future. they're just not going to spend. american companies won't be able to make up the difference in forward markets. europe is careening into a recession. japan is still in deep trouble. china's growth has slowed. profits are the highest share of the u.s. economy on record. wages are the lowest. but this imbalance can't and won't last. >> can't and won't. and look what's happening on wall street. they're doing better, willie, than ever before. >> mm-hmm. >> ever before. for the past four years, wall street has exploded over the past four years. real income has dropped for middle-class americans. the poverty rate's gone up. one in four americans are on food stamps. you talk about two americas. john edwards is right. >> incomes. >> over the past four years, and it's certainly not the president's fault alone, it's washington's fault, in general. but over the past four years,

you just look at the numbers. the rich are getting richer. the poor are getting poorer. wall street's doing great. main street's suffering. >> dow jones hovering still around 14,000, which is a huge number. >> wow! >> if you read reaction to this number that came out yesterday, from economists left and right, by the way, they say don't read too much into it because of what you're talking about, that business investment is on the rise. consumer spending is doing okay. housing is coming back a little bit. so this feels like it's more related to a lack of government spending, cuts in defense spending than it is about some of the important consumer things that we look for in the economy. >> hopefully it acts as a catalyst for congress and the senate to understand that if they get some deal around the fiscal cliff and around spending cuts, sequestration are to come, and two, we invest in things that are growing jobs, particularly energy. i'm just saying this should be a sign to those in politics, don't

play with this. there's so many good things. there's a lot of corporate money overseas waiting to come back. profits are up. it's just waiting for that last one or two levers to be pushed. and hopefully we as a country and the congress can do it. >> we want to get kelly o'donnell in on the testimony. for that we go to the testimony that took place on capitol hill yesterday. former congresswoman gabrielle giffords who survived a mass shooting in arizona two years ago made an unexpected appearance before the senate judiciary committee, reading off a page of handwritten prepared remarks. she urged congress to act now on gun reform. >> too many children are dying. too many children. we must do something. it will be hard. but the time is now.

you must act. be bold. be courageous. americans are counting on you. thank you. >> that says it all. giffords' husband, mark kelly, says expanding background checks for gun buyers should be a top priority, but the nra's chief executive yesterday, even after that, refused to give any ground. >> we know from what happened in tucson that if there was an effective background check, which includes having the mental health data and the person's drug use, in the case of the tucson shooter, into the system, and if, in fact, there was no gun show loophole, i would contend that he would have had a very difficult time getting a gun. if background checks are good enough for somebody who's a federal firearms licensed dealer like walmart, for instance,

where i just purchased a gun a couple months ago, a hunting rifle, and i had to go through a background check, why isn't that good for other sales? >> my problem with background checks is you're never going to get criminals to go through universal background checks. i mean, all the law-abiding people create an enormous federal bureaucracy. we aren't going to prosecute any of the bad guys if they do catch one, and none of it makes any sense in the real world. >> i don't get that. >> senator lindsey graham and others at the hearing made the case for higher capacity magazines. >> would i be a reasonable american to want my family to have the 15-round magazine and a semiautomatic weapon to make sure if there's two intruders shouldn't run out of bullets. am i an unreasonable person for saying that in that situation, the 15-round magazine makes

sense? there can be a situation where a mother runs out of bullets because of something we do here. six bullets in the hands of a woman trying to defend her children may not be enough. >> an assault weapon in the hands of a young woman defending her babies in her home becomes a defense weapon. and the peace of mind that a woman has as she's facing three, four, five violent attackers, intruders in her home with her children screaming in the background, the peace of mind that she has knowing that she has a scary looking gun gives her more courage when she's fighting hardened violent criminals. >> and therein -- >> wow! >> -- lies the problem with having to defend assault weapons. because if you go out and try to defend assault weapons, then you

end up looking like a jackass. seriously -- >> i'm sorry, but that's true. >> willie -- willie -- >> that was gail trotter, a gun advocate for the independent women's forum. >> and before that, lindsey graham who said, i am unreasonable to think that a woman needs a high-capacity magazine? rambo in the house. to defend -- come on. seriously? this is so stupid. and wayne lapierre saying, you know, the criminals out there, the criminals out there that aren't going to abide by background checks, so we should just have no background checks. well, why do we -- willie, why do we have any laws on the books? there are terrorists that are going to end up -- >> just let it be the wild west. >> -- in the united states of america. why do we even try to stop al qaeda, right? they say they're going to attack us again. so why don't we let down all of

our defenses and just give up? >> one of the problems or the problem, i think, with the story they told over and over again about the georgia woman with the two infants is that she did defend herself. she shot the guy five times, and he left the home. she had a gun with six rounds in it. she was able to defend herself. >> she didn't kill him. >> on your other point about lapierre on the universal background checks, cbs poll shows 92% of americans favor them including 89% of republicans and 93% of gun households, people with guns. 93%. >> willie, these people are such -- wayne lapierre is from the survivalist wing of the nra. and if you're lindsey graham or other republicans that are going to march off the cliff with wayne lapierre, you're a fool. you're going to get what you deserve. and more republicans are going to lose. nobody listened to me. nobody listen to me. and colin powell and other republicans warning about how this extremism is going to cost us in 2012. it's going to cost us in 2014.

it's going to cost us in 2016. they can decide. they want to start winning elections again or not? it's stupidity. >> kelly o'donnell, you were on capitol hill yesterday. do you think what we saw in that room over the course of a long day will have impact now legislatively, on the outcome of this whole gun debate? >> well, i think one of the things that's so important about watching that is when you distill it down, you see the theater and extreme points of view, but it's what congress has to work through because these issues are not easy. you can come up with a scenario to give an argument for why an individual -- and i notice that they tended to only speak of women who needed to defend themselves, which, you know, is perhaps an effective argument -- you can find those scenarios. you can do the survivalist thing like after katrina or after the riots in l.a. where there are pockets of anarchy that might exist for a period of a few days in the united states where people might say, i've got to have a weapon. then you've got the heartfelt, emotional testimony of gabrielle

giffords and her husband. it's so important to remember, gabrielle giffords is partially blind. she is partially paralyzed. here's somebody who i used to talk to in the hallways, and now you can see her struggle to get those carefully chosen words out. that's a very real example of what can happen. you're also seeing lawmakers who are trying to figure out, okay, if they do something, will it be effective? so part of what you're going to find in the debate is they're going to kind of work through all of these extremes and scenarios to see if they can settle on something that people can agree on, having worked through it. you heard graham say, you know, if we do something, might we end up having yet again a mother who can't defend herself? so part of what you're watching is the sausage making of policy. it's not always pretty. >> no. >> working through it, talking about it to try to get to some answers. it's not going to be easy. >> you know, it's not going to be easy also, harold ford, not just for republicans but for democrats in the senate. you know, we, every night, we

tweet out questions to ask, you know, what are your ideas? last night after doing gabby giffords speech, he's from tennessee, i'm a huge fan of his. >> glen reynolds. >> glen reynolds said ask the question about the courage that gabby giffords is asking to be shown. glen said ask that question of democrats in red states that are running in 2014? are they going to have a political courage to do what gabby giffords thinks is the right thing on background checks, on high-capacity magazines, on assault weapons? >> i think it is unlikely that the congress will pass a ban on assault weapons. >> what about these democrats? how hard is it for the moderate democrats? >> speaking specifically of those democrats. i think they will have a hard time voting for a ban on assault weapons. i think willie's point about the background checks and the almost

universal support makes it a much easier argument to pass. and two -- >> what about the high-capacity magazines? >> then on these big magazines, i think there's an agreement, a compromise, to be made for those who want to shoot and use those magazines at shooting clubs and while some may hunt with that, keep them there. and if you want to take them out, you have to register in a more serious and comprehensive way than you would checking out a book. i use the library analogy only as a metaphor. it would obviously have to be more stringent. on moderate democrats, put aside for re-election or not, moderate democrats particularly those up for re-election in states where gun culture is pervasive are going to find it easy to support it. in fact, the magazines concern me more than the guns because without the magazines, you can't use the guns the way that some people including myself fear they could be used. >> yeah. >> listening yesterday, i thought mark kelly was the best. it would be great if at some point we could have the ceo of walmart come before the committee. he laid out specifically what

they sold at walmart. and walmart sales have not been impacted. lapierre warned of a bureaucracy being created. it would be good to hear from retailers who make money off this and take care of their customers to answer these questions as well. >> they like making the money. i mean, they made so much money since newtown. >> oh, it's unbelievable. >> so much money since those little children were lined up and shot down. >> including the gun shows. >> so sick. coming up -- >> retailers. it's why wayne lapierre is taking an extremist stand. >> captain mark kelly, as you mentioned, will be joining us to discuss his testimony yesterday on capitol hill. also, senator claire mccaskill will join us. and later, legendary music producer tommy mottola and then "the politico playbook" with jim vandehei. first bill karins with the forecast. good job on "way too early." >> not bad, right? >> pretty great. >> you're coming along just fine. >> what part of me did you like

the best? >> oh, good god. oh. >> i know which part. >> oh, my lord. >> no, no. damn it! why does he always do that? >> always one step too far. >> at least one step. >> good morning, everyone. new england, we got rocked last night. 60-mile-per-hour wind gusts in boston. actually gusted to 60 miles per hour even at laguardia airport last night. these are the wind gusts, not the temperatures. providence at 47. boston at 51. we're actually watching the winds dying off a little bit now in connecticut. the only really dangerous winds still left, rhode island, providence, boston out to the cape. give it another hour and we'll be done with the wind danger threat. there's snow showers and a lot of cold air over the great lakes. all that white back in pittsburgh and buffalo, you could drive into some blinding snow bands today in ohio, western pa, western new york and areas of michigan. as far as the forecast goes today, again, the rain will be ending in new england. then it will be windy, and temperatures will fall. it will feel like winter by

tonight. and look at these temperatures in minneapolis today. that's your high today. it's going to go up to one degree. chicago, only 15. this is days after hitting 60 degrees in chicago. kansas city at 20. and i want to show you these windchills because they have schools that are canceled in many areas of north dakota, south dakota and minnesota this morning. it is negative 39 right now windchill in bismarck. and a place called rolla, north dakota, the lowest windchill i could find, it feels like minus 50 if you step outside on your bare skin. that is extreme weather. days after we get done with marchlike temperatures. so the roller-coaster winter continues across the country on this last day of january. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. this happy couple used capital one venture miles

for their "destination wedding." double miles you can "actually" use. but with those single mile travel cards... [ bridesmaid ] blacked out... but i'm a bridesmaid. oh! "x" marks the spot she'll never sit. but i bought a dress! a toast... ...to the capital one venture card. fly any airline, any flight, anytime. double miles you can actually use. what a coincidence? what's in your wallet? [ all screaming ] watch the elbows ladies.

hey, that manti stuff is freaky, mika. did you see "dr. phil"? >> what i would do is leave them alone. >> you say "them." who? manti and dr. phil who? who are these them? >> stop it. >> stop what? >> just leave -- dave zirin's going to be here. >> thank god. he knows all about that stuff. willie, what happened? >> we met the guy on the other end of the phone yesterday. >> he said he was in love. dr. phil said he's in love. >> dr. phil, seriously? we've all jumped the shark. just stop. >> we love dr. phil. by the way, by the way, we need dr. phil just to help us out around here. and by the way, can i just say, if i were living in a post-apocalyptic world, all i would need was my bushmaster and dr. phil. >> you're good. >> right? that's all you need. right, willie? >> yeah.

you know what one of the problems is? you know the guy in "terminator 2," the polymetallic alloy? what do you do about that? because he keeps coming at you. he's going to get you. >> he's going to get you. there's nothing dr. phil nor a bushmaster can do. >> no. >> i need lindsey to have a chart for that one. >> oh, i need dr. phil. okay. >> when that guy comes at you, huh? >> he's fast, too. >> ooh! it scares me. what's wayne lapierre going to do about that? >> all right. i'm going to listen to alex. >> listen. it's parody. they're clowns. it was a clown show. >> really? >> it was a clown show. >> let's take a look at "the morning papers." "the washington post," israeli warplanes struck syria yesterday, apparently targeting high-tech weapons which they believe were on their way to hezbollah militants in lebanon. it happened just outside damascus and marked the first attack by israel against syrian targets in some five years. syrian state tv insisted the air

strike hit a military research site, not a weapons convoy. "the new york times," chinese hackers have spent months infiltrating the computer systems and trying to gain access to reporter and staffers' information. this according to a new report from "the times." the attacks stem from an article published in october saying that the prime minister had accumulated billions of dollars through business deals. "the los angeles times," wall street is feeling cautiously better about facebook this morning after a surprise fourth quarter. the social media company saw a 40% jump in revenue from the same time a year ago. largely due to successfully integrating advertising into their mobile apps. but the cost of investment in mobile dragged down facebook's profits. and, of course, willie geist, the "daily news" is reporting sex-crazed sarge betted my new york pd hubby, laid to rest. so let's go to "politico" now. >> sounds good. joining us now, the executive editor there, mr. jim vandehei.

jim, good morning. >> morning. how are you? >> doing all right. you're taking a look at marco rubio, he's been front and center on this immigration question. you say there may be some potential trouble for him. it is a fraught issue. what's the problem? >> you know, we were talking on the show the other day about rush limbaugh and the interview he had and how much pressure rush and some of the conservatives would put on marco rubio not to embrace comprehensive immigration reform. rich lawry who's the editor of "national review," which is one of the most if not the most influential publication on the right has a column on "politico" this morning where he takes rubio to task and says that the bill that he has endorsed or the framework that he has endorsed is a bad bill, is a bad approach. he's saying it's amnesty, it's granting benefits to people who broke laws. and they're part of the conservative movement that's leading the charge against it. and it just shows the pressure that's going to be on these republicans who want to evolve on the immigration issue but are always very responsive to what's happening at the base which you see playing out in the gun debate.

you know, where you have wayne lapierre, you have activists saying they don't want to do anything on guns, and you have republicans in congress reacting accordingly. >> and, you know, kelly o'donnell, not only do you have rich lowry who's the editor of "national review" coming out against it and other conservatives but "national review" itself, all of the editors came out yesterday harshly going against this immigration bill, which suggests -- and you also had dave vitter, david vitter, i think he said rubio was, quote, nuts. >> naive. >> naive. >> naive. maybe he said it's nuts or something like that, but yeah. it looks like the conservatives are starting to push back against this belief that immigration reform is going to happen no matter what. >> well, and you see marco rubio who's been working on this for a long time, sort much making headlines now, but i remember being in meetings with him many months ago where he was trying to figure out a way to make this

an area where there could be compromise. so you're finding even in how he's describing it, it's different. for him, he calls it a path to a green card, not path to citizenship. wanting to remind people that citizenship takes many years to achieve. and so he's trying to take a little of the sting out of it by trying to take a more practical approach by just sort of arguing a case for why it matters to business as well as families and sort of the history of the country to be more open to the idea of, as he says, legal immigration that he believes republicans do support. this is thorny for him politically, no question about that. and so it's going to be interesting to watch how this affects sort of his rising star status within the party. he's an effective communicator on these issues. he's got a lot of personal life experience, but he's going to have a lot of selling to do. >> kelly o'donnell's up on capitol hill in the middle of all this. thn thanks so much. appreciate your prv as well as jim vandehei. coming up next, our super bowl picks.

our good friend dave zirin joins us, and dr. phil. manti and deer antler spray. we've got a lot to talk about. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro. executor of efficiency. you can spot an amateur from a mile away... while going shoeless and metal-free in seconds. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle...and go. you can even take a full-size or above, and still pay the mid-size price. now this...will work. [ male announcer ] just like you, business pro. just like you. go national. go like a pro. in that time there've been some good days. and some difficult ones. but, through it all, we've persevered, supporting some of the biggest ideas in modern history.

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here we have a young man that fell deeply, romantically in love. >> does he say that? does he say he fell in love? >> i asked him straight up, was this a romantic relationship with you? and he says yes. i said, are you, then, therefore gay? and he said, well, when you put it that way, yes. and then he caught himself and said, i am confused. >> actually, willie -- >> wait. >> i may actually turn the bushmaster. >> no, no, no. isn't that violating the doctor/patient relationship just a tad bit? >> not if you're not a real doctor. >> he plays a doctor on tv. >> he plays a doctor on tv. >> the guy plays a doctor in an interview with lights. this is all on the record. >> this is really just for show. it's really not real. >> well, it's real for us. we're trying to figure out what's going -- >> great. >> willie, i've got this manti

puzzle at home. >> it's starting to come together. >> found one more piece. >> this is starting to get boring. >> fits right in there. >> dave zirin's here, sports editor of "the nation" and author of "game over: how politics has turned the sports world upside down." where are we in the manti -- it was hot and heavy for a week. people kind of lost interest. did we sort of figure it out in that dr. phil interview yesterday? >> when i see dr. phil, i welcome our imminent zombie overlords. >> yes, they're coming. >> it's a preferable future for me. it would be a happier country. less dr. phil, more zombies. where we are with te'o, america has a newer shinier ball to look at, so they've moved on to the next story, which is of course the super bowl in the sports world. >> i thought you were talking about the deer husk spray. >> the deer antler spray? i was in the green room huffing it for hours. >> we actually have it. >> we have an oxygen tank, but we actually -- you breathe that

stuff in. >> it's the only way to do morning news. but the manti te'o story, it's still, to me, not being talked about the way it needs to be talked about which is a major crisis in sports journalism. i don't care who he dated, who he didn't date, whether he was in love with a computer or not or tuiasosopo. good pronunciation. >> you've been studying this story. >> the bigger issue is that you still have this thing in sports that the great "new york times" sports writer, what he said, you've god up ad let'ses. you god them up, build them up only to tear them down. look at lance armstrong. if armstrong, god forbid, had died ten years ago, might be named differently. >> we talked about sports before, and we've talked about it, so many of these sports guys, you don't want to call them sports journalists, they kiss up to 18, 19, 20-year-old

kids. >> the same thing with tiger woods. a lot of people could have asked a lot of questions, but he was the only game in golf in town for 10, 15 years. to go up against tiger woods was to lose access to tiger woods, and it was a story that everybody could talk about all the time. so i think there's a resistance -- and not everybody, but in some quarters, they don't want to shoot down the great story. >> and you don't know sometimes where the kardashians end and the nba begins in sports journalism. unfortunately what this hides for us is there are huge stories that profound on the country and don't get discussed. that's really what the book is about. like in the last five years, massive economic crisis in the country reflected itself in sports. look at four lockouts just in the last year. the issue of football injuries i think has had a profound effect about how parents see sports, 1 million less kids signing up for youth football. >> you see the president -- >> yeah, the president saying to "the new republic," leading from behind. people have been talking about this for years. and he's coming in on it now. >> one of the huge stories going

forward is going to be the economic underpinnings of the national football league. >> exactly. >> all this pending litigation. it could be catastrophic. >> 4,000 former players suing the league including a slew of hall of famers. and what they're raising, it's going to be, like, seriously like a cattle call of testimonies of people who say, you know, i could have predicted losing my hips, losing my knees. i didn't know i wouldn't be able to remember my kids' names, and that's going to be devastating. >> that sounds, willie, like a happy segue into the super bowl this weekend. >> the super bowl this weekend. we know the obvious one -- >> good segue. >> that was good. the obvious story line is the coaches, the two brothers going against each other. what else are you looking at? >> from the political perspective, this is like the lgbt super bowl in some respects. like is america ready for the big gay super bowl? on the ravens' side -- >> excuse me? >> didn't get that? in scarborough country, are they ready for this?

>> i don't know if they're ready for it in san francisco. you see what the players said? >> that's what's so interesting. the san francisco 49ers are also the first nfl team to do one of the it gets better ads. the ravens have a player who said openly i'm going to use the super bowl as a place to talk about marriage equality and to talk about anti-bullying campaigns. then the 49ers have a player named chris culliver, one of howard stern's sweaty minions all this anti-gay homophobic stuff. the growth of an lgbt movement in this country has also had a profound effect on athletes, on masculinity, on how people talk about sports. it's really fascinating. the other issue in the super bowl, this is not being talked about, but there's going to be a commercial -- >> are you going to make up another issue? >> this is a real one. there have been, like, actual protests -- actual protests in the streets of d.c. the other one was real, too. this one's real. there's going to be a super bowl ad for a company called tod eed

sodastream that's on an illegal settlement in the west bank. there have been protests of showing the ad, protests of people saying no, this is a good thing. this is also going to be a political repercussion in sports. >> sports is political, huh? >> the house is on fire anyway. i'm not the arsonist. i'm just saying look, it's on fire. >> okay, billy joel. >> we got our picks lined up. >> we've got our picked in order. >> we're going to go around the table. i'm taking the ravens for no reason. i've got a friend from baltimore. i like the team. they're gritty, they're old. one last stand for the ravens. >> i like the ravens because of the coach, john harbaugh, a little more smiley-faced than his brother. >> crazy. >> i think they're going to shut down kaepernick. >> i like the ravens because this is colin kaepernick's tenth start of his career. law of averages and ed reed hasn't had an impact game yet, the future hall of fame safety for the ravens, he's due.

>> 49ers. >> no reason? >> she doesn't show her work. she just gives you the answer. >> and usually right. >> don't be frightened. >> i'm going with the ravens. >> the 49ers are favored and everybody's picking, the four or five of us just picked the ravens. >> i don't know why you did that. >> you did at the end of the year. >> i saw it in terms of ray lewis' last ride and deer antler spray or not, is he an icon in baltimore. and the whole city's behind him. >> but as we know, ray lewis takes a back seat on sunday to the soda company from the west bank. that'sanybody's going to be talking about on the broadcast. the book is "game over: how politics has turned the sports world upside down." >> great to be here. three months after sandy, we'll visit a community has still very much in need of relief. you'll want to stick around this. keep it on "morning joe." [ tylenol bottle ] nyquil what are you doing?

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communities throughout the northeast are still recovering from the devastating effects of hurricane sandy. few communities were hit harder than the rockaways where residents there are still waiting for help. ♪ >> reporter: three months after hurricane sandy devastated the rockaways, linda peavy is still struggling to pick up the pieces. not much has changed since her apartment was flooded and burned to the ground. this is how it looks today. >> it's very sad. it's very hard to walk by here every day. >> reporter: linda, like many other residents, fears that she may be forgotten. >> people who are not living it, it's easy for them to get complacent and forget. >> reporter: local democratic assembly district leader lou simon doesn't feel like enough

is being done. >> the local businesses no longer exist here. it's like a bomb's been dropped in our community. and they've got no help outside of -- i can say one group of angels who put their money where their mouth is. >> reporter: graybeard's president is determined to have his community rebuilt. >> i get upset when i hear the word "normal," you know, you back to normal? we are far from normal. >> reporter: the graybeards have become a life line to the rockaway community. >> the graybeards are awesome. they're actually, like, the only ones who really reached out to me to help me. >> reporter: raising nearly $1 million for sandy victims, the graybeards distribute every cent donated to those who need it most. >> we set up our mission statement to help our neighbor in their time of need, and we are certainly fill filling that mission statement right now. >> they asked me why i didn't leave. i know a lot of people are leaving. for me, this is home.

>> mika, you look at the scenes. it's just -- >> that's today. >> just today. it's devastating. >> so the woman that we met in louis' piece, when hurricane sandy hit, her son was in afghanistan and is credited with saving her life because they were on -- >> he was on the phone. >> and he told her, get out of the building. and apparently she got out. just incredible. i mean, that area has been hit two or three times in the past few -- well, since 9/11. it's unbelievable. so he also -- her son on the phone instructed her to use wet blankets to reduce the smoke entering the apartment. he was basically machinating her entire road to safety from afghanistan. >> these graybeards are just doing an extraordinary job. >> they really are. >> and they have been a life line to so many people in that community. >> who are feeling a little bit forgotten as life goes on, and their entire worlds are still in complete devastation. >> willie, you've spent a lot of

time out there. >> yeah. >> and it was rough in the fall. it's still rough out there. >> and it's everywhere. it's rockaway. you could go down to union beach, new jersey, or new dort beach out on staten island. there was that initial rush the first few days of media coverage and help and relief groups going in. but now a lot of these places are ghost towns. in the weeks and months ahead are when they need help to stay on top of it. >> look at this, louis and clayton went out, and the footage they brought back was just shocking. >> there's a way you can help. joe and i are going to be hosting tonight "relief for rockaway." that's tonight at 6:30 in new york city. if you want to go, go to reliefforrockaway.com. there's going to be an open bar, celebrity guests and basically we're all trying to raise money to help rockaway. >> an open bar. >> well, there you go. barnicle will be there, that's for sure. anyhow. but it's going to be a great event. >> no, it is. >> it's an important event and we urge people to reach out. come to the event or just donate

money. help any way you can. still ahead, captain mark kelly is here following his testimony on capitol hill on gun violence. we'll be right back. with the spark cash card from capital one, olaf gets great rewards for his small business! pizza! [ garth ] olaf's small business earns 2% cash back on every purchase, every day! helium delivery. put it on my spark card! [ pop! ] [ garth ] why settle for less? great businesses deserve great rewards! awesome!!! [ male announcer ] the spark business card from capital one. choose unlimited rewards with 2% cash back or double miles on every purchase, every day! what's in your wallet?

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♪ in the middle of our street ♪ our house ♪ in the middle of our okay, coming up next, our next guest is taking a leading role in the effort to reduce gun

violence. mark kelly, the husband of former congresswoman gabrielle giffords, joins us next. and former adviser to the romney campaign, dan senor, is here. keep it right here on "morning joe." [ woman ] ring. ring. progresso. i just served my mother-in-law your chicken noodle soup but she loved it so much... i told her it was homemade. everyone tells a little white lie now and then. but now she wants my recipe [ clears his throat ] [ softly ] she's right behind me isn't she? [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup.

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♪ don't know what i'd do ♪ i'd have nothing to prove [ male announcer ] zales is the diamond store. take an extra 10 percent off storewide now through sunday. would i be a reasonable american to want my family to have the 15-round magazine and a semiautomatic weapon to make sure if there's two intruders, i

shouldn't run out of bullets. am i an unreasonable person for saying that in that situation, the 15-round magazine makes sense? there can be a situation where a mother runs out of bullets because of something we do here. six bullets in the hands of a woman trying to defend her children may not be enough. >> an assault weapon in the hands of a young woman defending her babies in her home becomes a defense weapon. and the peace of mind that a woman has as she's facing three, four, five violent attackers, intruders in her home with her children screaming in the background, the peace of mind that she has knowing that she has a scary looking gun gives her more courage when she's fighting hardened, violent criminals. >> yeah. top of the hour. >> a beautiful sunrise. >> actually, it's kind of a

horrifying start to the day after listening to that. welcome back to "morning joe." mike barnicle and harold ford jr. are still with us. and joining us on set, former foreign policy adviser to the bush administration and former adviser to the romney campaign, dan senor. and joining us from washington, former astronaut, founder of americans for responsible solutions pac and husband of former congresswoman gabby giffords, captain mark kelly. captain kelly testified yesterday at the senate hearing on cushing gun violence, but we also saw others that testified yesterday. >> captain, there were parts of the testimony yesterday that just looked like a freak show. >> not your part. >> you know, i know lindsey and friends, but these arguments are just insane. >> they're stunning. >> and you had, of course, wayne lapierre out there talking about how he was even against background checks, that 91% of americans support. these people are driving my party over the cliff. but your wife, obviously, very

moving testimony. >> i don't know how you sat there next to your wife listening to that. >> tell us, what was it like for you yesterday? >> well, by the time the other folks started testifying, gabby was already gone and in a back room and watching on tv. i was extremely proud of her. i mean, for her to get up there, as people can see, you know, this is difficult for her. but she had a message that i think folks really need to listen to. i mean, you know, she's a victim of gun violence. she personally knows what this experience is like not only to her but to her constituents. >> there are a lot of, as you know very well, being in the military, there are a lot of americans that believe in second amendment like i do, believe they have a right to have a handgun to protect their family, a right to have a shotgun, a hunting rifle.

but there's this extreme element right now. i call it the survivalist wing of the nra that makes a lot of money from the gun manufacturers. these assault weapons. i'm wondering, you're getting involved. do you think you're going to be able to counter some of the more extremist elements of the nra with what you're doing and trying to get your message out and supporting candidates that support the second amendment but also support reasonable regulation of some of these more extreme assault firearms? >> yeah, absolutely, joe. i mean, when you look at the nra, the membership itself, i mean, 74% of the nra members agree with gabby and i. that there should be a universal background check before buying a gun. those 74% of the members of the nra do not agree with wayne lapierre and the leadership. so, i mean, we've got those folks on our side on this part of the issue. now, it gets a little bit more complicated with assault weapons and high-capacity magazines.

but i think we can have a reasonable conversation, some of what you saw yesterday i thought was a very reasonable discussion about the capability of these weapons and the lethality and in my opinion and in gabby's opinion, why they should be really, you know, used in the military. i spent 25 years in the u.s. navy. i've shot these weapons. i've flown in combat. these weapons are extremely effective at killing a lot of people very quickly. and they should be reserved for the united states military. >> you know, mika, i hear that over and over again from my friends that have served in the military. we've heard it from colin powell. we heard it from stan mcchrystal. so many of my friends that have served in the army that have served in the marines say i've used these weapons. i know what they're for. they're for killing a lot of people as quickly as possible. they should be used for killing

enemies on foreign battlefields, not for civilian use. >> and we're hearing from general after general that comes on our show and actually has an honest conversation about this, which is what we do here. and they don't see a place for it in our society. and i don't understand -- i had a very hard time listening to the testimony from the nra as well as from -- i think it's gayle trotter, the lawyer who is representing their point of view because it just, to me, is putting us back into a time -- or forward into a time that's very frightening for our society. and they're profiting the nra and the gun lobby off of people's fear and extremism. and there's no other way to put it. >> so let me ask you, captain, you feel like there is a possibility that you will find enough support among republicans for a universal background check in the senate? >> yeah, absolutely.

you know, gabby and i are always incredibly optimistic. we're going to work hard to achieve that goal, among others. and there is a lot of indication that -- i mean, from the senators that spoke yesterday on both sides of the aisle, i got a really pretty strong sense that, you know, there is support for universal background checks. maybe not from the nra's leadership, but from congress, from the nra membership. you know, we're not going to agree on everything. you know, gabby and i are both very strong supporters of the second amendment. i don't think you'll find somebody who is a stronger supporter of the second amendment. but in my opinion and in gabby's, some of these things are not really about the second amendment anymore. they're about public safety and protecting your children even in their classrooms. >> captain mark kelly, thank you very much. we wish you the best of luck in your efforts. >> thank you, mika. thank you, joe. >> thanks for being on the show.

>> thank you, captain. and please give our best to your wife. what courageous testimony yesterday. >> it was. it was incredible to hear from her. it said it all. it really did, in very few words. this issue, though, we were talking about generals coming forward, colin powell, different people on our show, and politicians who are moving toward trying to get either bans on assault weapons or background checks for stricter regulations on assault weapons. they are paying a political price which shows what divisions there still are in this country over the issue. new york governor andrew kcuomos hard-line stance may be having an effect on his approval numbers. according to a new poll, his approval rating currently sits at 59%, down 15% from his all-time high approval rating which he achieved just last month. cuomo's numbers have dropped even further among gun owners. just 40% of people in gun-owning households approve of the governor's job performance. >> so dan, herein lies a problem

for any politician that wants to come out certainly and be as aggressive as andrew cuomo. nobody in washington is going to be that aggressive. but you look at numbers, the background checks, banning high-capacity magazines, those are very popular. some polls show even banning assault weapons are 60/40 propositions now. but it's going to be tough -- let's put the republican house aside. let's just talk about harry reid's democratic senate. >> right. >> it's going to be tough passing a lot of these gun-control measures, and i predict by the end, immigration, even through harry reid's democratic senate. >> on gun control, it's interesting. when you look at how harry reid talks about immigration versus how he talks about gun control, yesterday in "the new york times," he says on gun control, he says the senate will consider legislation that addresses gun violence. not he. he won't take the lead on it. the senate will consider. on immigration, he says that i will work tirelessly to make reform a reality in the senate.

so there is a commitment, i believe, among democratic leaders on immigration reform. i'm not convinced there's a commitment at least with the senate majority leader on gun control. there's a number of democratic senators on red states who are up for re-election in 2014. it will be interesting to see how far they are willing to go on some of these gun-control measures. >> i don't think they're going to certainly -- i don't think they're going to be willing to go as far as the assault weapon ban. i just don't. certainly i think they're going to support the background checks. i think high-capacity magazines are somewhere in the middle. but you start moving towards assault weapons, i think it's going to take more campaigning, and i think it's going to take more time until that 60% goes to 70%. and it will. by the way, let me just say, this is a matter of time. history is on the side of people that want to take the most extreme weapons off the streets. we as a civilized society are

moving in that direction. >> but once the details of the legislation begin to get fleshed out beyond just principles, this stuff gets really complicated. we were just talking about immigration. that's exactly what happened. look at last week -- the debate last week on immigration reform versus this week. this week you had real specifics beginning to come out. >> right. >> from this bipartisan group in the senate. and suddenly you begin to see the right backlash against immigration. >> you said it looks like we're going sideways on immigration. that certainly would be good for some conservatives in conservative districts, but you know, better than anybody else, what it means for republican presidential candidate if your candidate, mitt romney, had gotten the same percentage as george w. bush among hispanic voters, we would be talking about -- well, you wouldn't be here. i'm dead serious. >> you'd be in the white house. >> you'd be working in the white house with mitt romney. that's what losing this volt me vote means, and marco rubio is starting to take a lot of heat from his own party. let's first listen to --

actually, mika, you want to go ahead? >> yeah. he's got the heat from his participation in the senate's gang of eight immigration plan at question, rubio's push for new immigration enforcement mechanisms. and on the radio yesterday, republican senator david vitter from louisiana called rubio's approach "amazingly naive and ridiculous." vitter also said rubio is, quote, nuts if he doesn't think legal status offers a pathway to citizenship. >> and "the national review" editorial board wrote in an op-ed called "the pointless amnesty," dan. and they say this. "if we are to take hispanics at their word, conservative attitudes toward illegal immigration are a minor reason for their voting preferences. take away the spanish surname and latino voters look a great deal like other democratic constituencies, low-income households headed by single mothers and dependent upon some form of welfare are not looking for an excuse to join forces with paul ryan and pat toomey, given the size of the hispanic

vote, it would help democrats significantly to lose it by smaller margins than they have recently. but the idea that an amnesty is going to put latinos squarely in the gop tent is a fantasy." dan, that sounds an awful lot like 47% rhetoric. >> it's worse. it's racist. >> this is an incredibly corrosive way to start the debate. in the '90s, i was working for a senator who was the chairman of the subcommittee on immigration reform. we tried to have this debate in the mid-'90s. we were lone soldiers in the republican conference. we argued that for too long the debate on immigration had been centered around the burden that our country makes and takes and holds and carries because of immigrants. it was purely about the negative immigration. we said why don't we start the discussion about the positive contributions immigrants make to this society? immigrants are the ultimate entrepreneurs. their whole lives are entrepreneurial. they know how to face adversity.

they have to start anew. they build things. they come here to create jobs. let's start with the contributions. >> and harold, you look at that editorial. i don't know who wroelt it fte "the national review," but you say it's racist. >> i think there's some strong racial undertones there. look, if there is where a wing of the republican party is now, i say a wing, honestly, then not only does it look less and less likely that we'll find some agreement on this issue, it is mind boggling to me just as you analyze it from a narrow political sense how a party who lost so miserably with a group of people would lump an entire population of immigrants into and try to define them so narrowly and so cruelly as that editorial did. look, i think immigration reform would be hard even amongst some democrats. but if this is where we start, i actually think it's helpful to the issue if this is where "the national review" wants to be because i think you'll find some

moderate republicans and even those moderate democrats wanting to come around on something that allows some path, whether it's citizenship or green card or however you choose to define it, this is good for democrats, and i think it ultimately may be good for the issue. >> let's go to mike. put "the national review" editorial in. i've got a lot of friends over there. it sounds like short-term thinking to me, at best, if we want to win presidential electio election. >> can i ask a question? off of what you said about gun control, that it's just a matter of time. if you lump these two issues together, immigration and gun control, it would seem to most people that both elements, immigration and gun control, is just a matter of time before something happens to improve the situation. but the question is, these two issues taken together with regard to the republican party, and democrats have their own issues in the senate, but with regard to the republican party, does individual ideology, does the threat of getting primaried from the right in various

congressional districts and perhaps in senate contests that are going to be up, does the quest for success by being on the really right side of immigration and gun control, ideologically speaking, does it threaten terminally the prospects for national success for the republican party? >> i don't think there's any doubt. >> i think it does. dan, i think it does. dan, does it? >> i believe it does. whoever's our nominee for president in 2016 is not going to be successful if this -- the immigration issue -- is not addressed. now, i'm not saying it's sufficient. i'm not saying our nominee's guaranteed to be successful if the immigration issue is addressed, but it's necessary. it's a necessary but not sufficient thing that needs to happen. >> dan, let me ask you a question here. your candidate, mitt romney, our party's nominee, mitt romney, went so far right on immigration in iowa, and for a reason, for a reason, because he knew that people with the most extreme

views on immigration were going to get out and vote in primaries for him. >> yeah. >> so what does that say about the republican party that you have to stake out a position on immigration in january that dooms you in november? and it did with mitt romney. it doomed him. >> i actually think that the one body that can address this for republicans and improve -- head off the nightmare scenario that mike has spelled out are congressional republicans. if we're having this debate in january of 2016 in the context -- in the frame of a presidential primary, we're done. congress has to address it, and it has to be addressed in the next year or two. the problem is, the incentives for members of congress to address it are different than a presidential candidate because they are more worried, many of them, not all of them, some of them are more worried than a primary challenge than they are a general election fight. >> wait for the phone calls, though. wait for the phone calls when some groups on the far right just ginning this up and start talking about what we're hearing

right now, whether it's from rush limbaugh for "the national review," and those calls are going to start coming in 10-1 against immigration reform, and house members are going to vote against immigration reform. >> here's the one sliver of good news. and you've seen this, too. republicans and conservatives, there are more of them today open on this issue than they were two or four years ago. the republican fund-raising community is more engaged on this than they were in the past. conservative opponents of immigration reform are going to start hearing from their donors, not just the grass-roots activists. if you look at the crop of people thinking about running for president in 2016, whether it's marco rubio or chris christie or bobby jindal or paul ryan, jeb bush, you look at all of them actually have what i call opportunity society conservative views on immigration. so they're not sort of the part of the, you know, the extreme right on these issues. they have a very sort of reaganesque outlook on the need for immigration reform. so i think you take the group that's sort on the bench in 2016

or the possible bench -- >> that's the bench? >> i mean, these are the names that are being talked about. what's interesting is that all of them are all high profile right now and open-minded on this issue, if not actively for it. i think the fund-raising community is excited about it and people in the conservative movement are more open on it than they were in the past. now, this can go sideways very quickly. and you're seeing the beginnings of people trying to make it go sideways over the last couple days. >> dan, stay with us, if you can. still ahead, cnbc's tyler mathisen will help us break down yesterday's surprising report on economic growth and what pushed down gdp for the first time in years. also, an exclusive first look at the new cover of "time" magazine which investigates america's go-to technology in modern warfare. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ man ] i've been out there most of my life.

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there's more work to do, and our economy is facing a major headwind which goes to your point, and that's republicans in congress. talk about letting the sequester kick in as though that were an acceptable thing belies where republicans were on this issue not that long ago, and it makes clear, again, that this is sort of political brinksmanship of the kind that results in one primary victim, and that's american taxpayers, the american middle class. >> okay. so, joe, tyler was reading "cosmo" last night. >> that's kind of disturbing. >> yes. >> it's the first thing he says when he walks in the door. i was reading "cosmo" last night. here with us now, cnbc's tyler mathisen. >> it said "mad sex," i just wanted to read it. >> so mika's in there talking about it. >> mika has a column in there. >> just for the record, i signed up for the column because i thought we could reach young

people. >> and you're doing it. >> then i look at the magazine, and you're right. >> it was life tips. and the one that i followed was if you're going to get up early in the morning, you can't stay out and go drinking the night before. so i followed that advice this morning. >> looking good. >> i'm feeling better than normal. >> looking much better than the economy. looking better than the economy. >> i find it -- you should check it out. >> absolutely. >> apparently you did. okay. >> what's going on with the economy? i mean, three years, four years later after spending trillions of dollars and running up $6 trillion more in debt, one stimulus program after another, we actually have a downturn. >> you know, i woke up yesterday morning, i turned on news radio here in new york city, and i heard that the economy was down a tenth of a percent. and i thought immediately that that meant that the economy had fallen from a 3.1% rate to a 3% rate in the fourth quarter. but no, the economy actually

slipped as that headline says into reverse. it's down a tenth of a percent. i don't think anybody suspected that. no, nobody expected that. i think they expected maybe it was going to slow down a little bit with hurricane sandy, with some of the other things that were going on. but that was really a shocker. and it shows how fragile the economy is. and while i might take exception with jay carney, i don't think the headwind that the economy faces is republicans in congress. >> no. that's ridiculous. >> the headwind the economy faces is finding a path to sustainable growth. that's the problem in america. >> and the problem -- >> growth. >> -- the problem is -- and i understand some of the keynesians are going to be offended by this, but we have heard for four years now that if you just keep throwing more money at the problem from the top down, i call it trickle-down, you know, federalism, just throw as much money from the federal government down, that's somehow going to get the economy growing instead of growing it from the bottom up, and we keep hearing that there's trillions of dollars on the sidelines. they're just waiting for washington to get their act

straight before they reinvest in the economy. >> well, they do want some consistency and some certainty, i think the people in the private sector who want to invest money, but make no mistake. we've been throwing money at the economy for a long time. and just yesterday the federal reserve said that they're going to continue buying $85 billion worth of securities every month, and that just puts cash into the economy. the problem, i think, with the economy is that we've tried to substitute debt for real growth. we've tried to borrow our way to prosperity. and the fact of the matter is we haven't had real income growth. we haven't had real wealth growth. what we've done -- and real wealth is wealth you don't have to repay. and so the fact of the matter is i think we've borrowed way too much, and that has to stop. >> just on income -- >> and we're still borrowing. we just keep borrowing, mika. wait, mika, go ahead. >> thank you. incomes are going down, part-time jobs. >> yes. >> it's just-- it's not a living. >> there has been very little

income growth as folks at this table and around the country know, particularly for american male workers since the 1970s, frankly. there has been -- >> the average wage -- >> is lower. >> -- for males in america has been going down since 1973. you look over the past four years, since we've sunk $6 trillion more into debt, you have household income going down in real dollars going down, poverty going up. again, i hate to keep saying this, and dan, we'll let you jump in here, but you're not going to get the economy going in a sustainable way by just continuing to pile up debt and doing it from the top down. you always have liberals talking about trickle-down economics. this is the ultimate trickle-down economics where they think they can spend trillions of dollars in washington, d.c., and the good results will trickle down. >> yes. >> to the rest of americans. it doesn't work that way. >> i heard this very amusing formulation about presidents'

second terms throughout history. and they basically summed it up this way. in the first year of a second term, they try and do something big on the economy. typically doesn't work. in the second year, they're already in midterms, third year, try to do middle east peace, doesn't work. and fourth year they're pardoning their friends. so we're in year one right now. it doesn't look very promising that we're going to get a deal which means we could be going through the next four years without any serious reduction in the deficit and the debt. so we could be looking at the picture we're at, and we'll be staring at it in 2015 and 2016. and it will only be worse. >> i think there's a relatively stronger argument for putting money, federal money, into the economy. when the economy is really in crisis. but i don't think we're any longer really in an economic crisis. we're in a period of slow growth. we have a major challenge in trying to find sensible ways to spark economic growth and get us going into the 21st century economy. i think that's the real issue. >> harold. >> in fairness to jay carney, we

were growing at 31.% in the third quarter. we dropped negative, 0.1%. congress certainly can play a role. the fact that we've had this shrinkage in federal spending has impacted the economy. i'd agree, we've substituteded debt for wealth creation. but at the same time government has to play a role. my point has been echoed on this show many times, real tax reform, real entitlement reform, predictability, consistency, certainty will create, i think, more opportunity for business skprechlt frankly may allow the energy sector, the health sector to really grow. >> and declined as much as it drks which wasn't a huge decline but it fell off, was the drying up of federal spending. that was one of the major contributors in that fourth quarter to why the economy went from a 3.1 growth rate to a negative 0.1% growth rate. when you think austerity doesn't affect gdp, it does. it collides with it. >> here's a clip, we want to talk about your documentary from

tyler's new cnbc documentary about the death care industry. it's entitled death: it's a living. >> what is the most expensive of the places to be buried here at maple grove? right there. >> $150,000. >> in this -- >> yes. >> -- monument here. >> this monument here. you're paying for the monument. >> so $150,000 to be on this side. >> yes. >> $150,000 to be on the other side? >> on the other side. >> and on each of the flanks? >> $75,000. >> and how many bodies would go here? >> right here, six. six bodies would go here. >> a condo, then. >> that's a condo. yes. >> but you haven't sold any? >> no, i conveniehaven't sold n. >> they're not dying to get in. >> no. not $150,000, no. >> my goodness. you can catch "death: it's a living" tonight at 9:00 p.m. >> talk about it, tyler. >> it is a living. >> we went to a large cemetery in queens, new york.

we went along with a woman who was buying a funeral plot for herself. i thought it was kind of funny because she said i want a place with a view. think about that. i want to be able to see the water. i'm sorry? think about that. >> you're going to be -- yeah. >> you're not going to be there. we found lots of very interesting things in the documentary that will air tonight on cnbc including coffins, caskets that have the ability to play your itunes in case you want to go to sleep. >> really? >> and coffins, by the way, that are one-third -- if you live in a double wide, you can get a double-wide coffin because we're getting bigger in america. in case you haven't noticed. all kinds of fascinating facts. >> that's insane. tyler mathisen, thank you so much. >> good to be with you. >> and reading "cosmo," the stuff you learn between those covers, my man. >> i love "cosmo." read my column in "cosmo." >> i do. >> yes. still ahead, a look at the technology that transformed the way wars are fought. we're going to go inside the new issue of "time" straight ahead

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still ahead, my favorite senator's going to be on the show. we'll ask senator claire mccaskill about today's confirmation hearing for chuck

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talk to your doctor about all your symptoms. get the blood tests. change your number. turn it up. androgel 1.62%. welcome back to "morning joe" at 39 past the hour. the sun just coming up over washington. a pretty day. joining us now, "time" magazine managing editor rick stengel who's here with the latest issue of "time." wow! >> wow! >> "the rise of the drones." >> "the rise of the drones." i feel like i should sing that. it's about this ancient but now transformational technology that's changing the way we wage far. >> flying anonymously. >> now they're becoming domestic objects. everything from the little helicopter that my son flies at home with a camera on it to places that, you know, police departments are using it, border

patrols are using it. i bet farmers are using it, insurance companies are going to start using it. >> so are we going to start seeing drones flying over chicago and other major american cities? >> yes. in fact, one of the little-known things is the obama administration during his first term had petitioned the faa to have unmanned aerial vehicles which is technically what drones are called to make more space in the civilian airways for them. it's a gigantic growth industry that has many civilian applications. >> what are the civil applications especially when it comes -- obviously, we remember back in the '80s, '90s especially across l.a., helicopters, police helicopters constantly flying over that city. is that what we can expect? >> yes. police use them now. you know, there have been examples of criminals who have been caught because a drone is following them. the border patrol uses them all along the mexican border. >> you say police. how widespread? >> it's not very widespread.

the number of actual approvals for big civilian drones is actually quite small. i mean, they are expensive, but of course, they're less expensive than using a manned vehicle. it's going to start growing. and of course, as you can shrink them, and they have this camera now that from 20,000 feet you can see something, you know, as small as six inches. >> oh, my gosh. >> they're going to be very, very -- used in a very wide way. and of course, there are privacy issues, right? drones have been used by the police to see, for example, whether you're growing marijuana in your backyard. but then you could have a little drone outside your window to see if you're smoking it in your bedroom, too. >> good lord. >> the supreme court has allowed, in fact, a plane to observe whether you're growing maybe in your backyard. there will be 14th amendment issue. >> moral issues. >> that will be interesting. >> you've written often about some of the moral issues. >> there's going to be one other joe's head. >> there's one right now. >> in a military context,

there's been some controversy, moral issues and questions. >> absolutely. >> i am a firm believer and supporter of using drones more so than humans in putting u.s. military personnel at risk. and again, we've been on this show and had this conversation. it would seem to me if you look at the success rate, and dan, you can speak to this probably as well as anyone on the panel, the success rate far outweighs any other concerns, i would imagine, surpasses -- when you look at costs, more importantly, human costs, financial costs, and granted, using it domestically, there will be a number of questions. and i respect that. >> and president obama is the drone president, basically. he's using it -- the technology way more than george bush did. but there are legal issues. there are international law issues. why wouldn't a foreign power use drones over here to someone that, you know, that their court says is a terrorist who's operating in the united states? what prevents, you know, an enemy from using drones? >> sovereign nations, governments around the world have very established

first-world intelligence-gathering capacity. they use it against us. they use it against our allies. and if this is the new world, they'll be using these. >> yes. >> it won't just be wiretapping embassies. they'll be using those. >> or hacking computers. >> and they'll be looking for dan senor, too. >> let's talk about the down side of drones. it also allows us to go as a country into nations, sovereign nations, where we haven't declared war. >> yes. >> drop bombs on people that we consider to be the bad guys. but also kill a lot of civilians. >> and that's what's happened in pakistan. >> and it's happened in pakistan. and the long-term impact -- i've said here -- the long-term impact of indiscriminately dropping, you know, bombs on civilians to kill terrorists. >> right. >> has long-term implications for us. we're going to be paying for as a country for decades to come.

>> there's a short-term benefit, but the long-term consequences that people not liking americans are feeling that america isn't back to predator nation. >> it's beyond that. you kill my 4-year-old daughter, i don't just not like you. >> yeah. >> i spend the rest of my life trying to destroy you. and that's happening. again, it's not just happening in countries where we have declared war. we're now going into country after country after country. and i guess, rick, what i don't understand is where are the civil liberties lawyers, the constitutional lawyers that were so concerned during the bush administration, for good reason, about how far we push the boundaries in the war on terror? where are those people now that we are killing innocent civilians across the world? >> well, we're still using the post-9/11 authorization bills to allow and justify the use of drones abroad. drones in afghanistan are done by the military, but drones elsewhere like in pakistan,

that's a covert action. that's overseen by the cia. >> you voted for these things. >> it's also a very clinical way -- >> i didn't vote for this. >> it's a very clinical way for the president -- no, no, but the reality is for the president to sit in his oval office and approve something like this has nothing comparable to what it's like to make a decision about deploying men and women into battlefield. it feels safe, distant and clean and the reality is it's incredibly complicated for the reasons you're saying. >> and the blowback for years to come is going to be great. >> none of these decisions are easy. >> for people who think that this is clean and sanitary -- >> they're not. >> they need to talk to people that are actually on the ground. >> exactly. >> in pakistan and afghanistan and some african nations where we're starting to drop drones. again, killing civilians in countries where we haven't even declared war. >> even president obama has said it gives you the illusion of a kind of purity that you don't have blood on your hands. of course, you do. >> him looking at the faces

before he pulls the trigger on the concept. okay, the new cover is "the rise of the drones." rick stengel, thank you. >> a morning pick-me-up. >> you've got to read it because it's fascinating, even big real estate agents are using drones to fly over their properties and get -- no, i'm dead serious -- >> get pictures. >> -- to get pictures and video of the properties they're trying to sell. i mean, the commercial used for this in the united states is pretty remarkable. >> go to our blog. the show blog where we explore how the cia's drone program might change if john brennan is confirmed as the agency's next director. that's at mojo@msnbc. rick, thank you. more "morning joe" in just a moment.

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standing here at this desk that once belonged -- at that

desk that once belonged to president kennedy and to ted kennedy, i can't help but be reminded that even our nation's greatest leaders and all the rest of us are merely temporary workers. i'm reminded that this chamber is a living museum, a lasting memorial to the miracle of the american experience. >> senator john kerry yesterday, getting emotional during his final address on the senate floor. kerry ended a 27-year senate career after getting confirmed to replace hillary clinton as secretary of state. tough questions are expected at today's confirmation hearing for chuck hagel. the president's nominee to be the next secretary of defense. hagel is expected to offer his views on the deep budget cuts facing the pentagon, if lawmakers are unable to avoid sequestration. on iran, the former senator has told congress in written remarks that meddle be prepared to strike that country if necessary, but stressed the need

to be cautious and certain when considering the use of force. vice president joe biden yesterday defended hagel and john kerry from critics who say they're concerned the president's new national security team would be hesitant to act. >> to suggest that two war heroes won the bronze star, purple heart, silver star, taking over both the state department and defense is a -- or whatever the phrase was -- is ridiculous. >> all right. so, fortunately, on john kerry's senate career in that moment, moving on, i just watched you watching barnicle, and i was wondering what you were thinking, given him. >> you know, i tell you what i was thinking. i was thinking that it's very rare for senator kerry to show public emotion. i've seen him do it on one other occasion, at a funeral service, where he eulogized a young guy who served with him in vietnam.

he broke down on the altar. we saw him break down yesterday. obviously, part of it is because his senate career has concluded, but part of it is because of the relationship that he had and forged over his time in the senate with ted kennedy. they became very, very close with one another. >> and dan seymore, looking ahead to chuck hagel and testimony in the confirmation process, still have, i'm sure, deep concerns. >> yes. but what's interesting if you could contrast kerry and hagel, there's this myth out there the senate is this club, and these guys, males and females, just take care of one another. and the reality is, if you look at the contrast between each one of hagel and kerry's received, kerry passed, was confirmed in the senate by 96 senators. an amazing number, overwhelming support. hagel is, shall we say, cruising upstream, because of big differences that people have with him upon iran, on israel,

on the defense budget, on a whole range of issues, on syria. so they're not just saying, hey, you're one of ours and we're going to be with you, like they did with kerry, they're saying, we have real fundamental differences with you and you'll have to explain them. hagel has said his views have changed. i think he'll get tough questions today. when did they change and why kid they change. >> and he deserves to have those questions asked. i think he'll answer them all sufficiently. we've had this conversation on air. i hope he is confirmed. i don't think he'll get the 96 votes, but i think he'll surprise you in the big majority that he eventually gets, if he answers those questions well, which i have confidence he will. >> i agree with you, the vote will surprise you, i think. >> i -- well, i think in either scenario, given the resistance he has met so far, and even if it's a confirmation but not a big number, i think he will be a very weak secretary of defense, and a number of the issues related to the pentagon will ultimately be run out of the west wing.

>> but part of the opposition to him, i would have to say, even looking at it from a neutral point of view, has been offensive. to be labeled as an anti -- >> let's talk about this, this is important. the supporters of senator hagel, many of them, cite his positions on iran, why he'd be this great independent voice. they cite his positions on israel. they cite his positions on hezbollah and terror groups and all these other matters. why is it okay for his supporters to cite those issues, the very votes, right, like when he was one of two senators to vote against sanctions against iran, some people think that's a good thing. when people say, you know, it's independent and free wheeling speaking when he says that the israeli israelists kept the palestinians penned up like animals. but the opponents can't say, you want to raise those issues, we think it speaks to his judgment. i think there's fundamental

problems with the things he said and voted on. >> i have no problem with that critique you just outlined. but i have a problem with extracting his positions and labeling an individual anti-semitic. >> i'm not for labeling people anything. i'm simply saying, many of the criticisms is, what speaks the to judgment? what is the judgment that led a man to vote this way and say the things that he said? and that's certainly fair game for a hearing. that's my view, at least. >> and we'll have more views coming up, because coming up in just a few minutes, senator claire mccaskill, part of the committee considering chuck hagel's nomination will join us. and up next, the gun control debate. former congresswoman gabby giffords calls for reform while a top senator says six bullets in a gun just might not be enough. we'll be back in a moment. hey! did you know that honey nut cheerios

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good morning. it's 8:00 a.m. on the east coast/5:00 a.m. on the west coast. time to wake up as you take a live look at new york city. welcome back to "morning joe." back with us on set we have mike barnicle, harold ford jr., and kelly o'donnell in washington. >> see the clown show down there in washington, d.c.? all of these people, all of these images of these, you know, little mama with a baby -- >> well, that's true --

>> -- needs, you know, needs an assault weapon to defend her little babies. and if we don't give them a clip with 30 -- >> she's not going to be safe. >> she needs a high-capacity magazine or she's not going to be safe. she can't lock and load. >> do you think it would be good if i had a high-capacity magazine? if i owned one? in my pickup truck. >> i have a rifle, but -- okay. >> but the suggestion, though, that a mom needs a bushmaster to protect their children in her house and if we don't give her that with a high-capacity magazine that somehow we're -- come on! >> we need to show that. >> you're talking about senator lindsey graham. he showed -- >> this lady. >> the woman had a gun, she had a .38, had six shots in it. she said an intruder comes in, she's hiding in the closet, protecting her children, she gets off six shots, five strike the guy, but it wasn't enough to kill him. if she had the ar-15 or another semi-automatic weapon, she would have been able to kill him.

he fled, he lived, she wasn't assaulted in any way, but he's saying she would have been able to kill him, not just strike him down if she had an assault rifle. >> this is just a sick conversation. >> but there's a similar thread to all of this and it's fear. you listen to wayne lapierre yesterday, it's fear. gun sales are driven by fear. his opposition to background checks is driven by trying to inject fear into the culture. it's all fear-based. >> i thought mark kelly was the best of all the presenters -- >> we're going to show all of this. there was such powerful testimony on capitol hill. >> did you see it? >> yeah, it was great. it was great. i got a big laugh out of wayne lapierre. he actually trotted out the survivalist argument. tornado -- >> we'll show it. i have another story first. >> then it's going to be like a steven king novel, like "the stand," and zombies. you know, you get three shots into a zombie -- >> stop it! >> seriously! did anybody read "the road"?!

did anybody read "the road"?! has nobody seen "the book of eli"?! really?! that gary oldman character, he's scary. and if you just have a glock -- >> okay. >> you won't save the bible! >> you are cooked. you're a street sweeper. >> you need -- i need my bushmaster, because the zombies are coming after me. >> cut his mic. today the white house is facing a new set of challenges after the commerce department reported yesterday that the nation's economy shrank for the first time since the great recession. >> how did that happen? >> well, government data shows the gross domestic product contracted at a 0.1% rate in the fourth quarter of 2012. it was the first decline since 2009. it put the white house on the defensive after months of touting steady drop growth. >> there's more work to do and

our economy is facing a major headwind, which goes to your point, and that's republicans in congress. talk about letting a sequester kick in, as though that were an acceptable thing belies where republicans were on this issue not that long ago and it makes clear, again, that this is political brinksmanship of the kind that results in one primary victim, and that's american taxpayers, the american middle class. >> okay. so what do you think is going on there, joe? >> i think what's going on is that we have spent more money as a government over the past four years than we have in the history of the republic. added $6 trillion in debt, and we have just been on a keynesian spending spree. and the economy is contracting. the idea is, you get the federal government to put some money in, and that's going to create larger job growth across america. it just hasn't happened.

so the question is, how long do we make this bet? >> so robert reich writes about consumer confidence, found this in "the huffington post," why consumers are bumd out. "the stock market is bullish because corporate profits are up, costs are down, the fiscal cliff agreement has locked in low taxes for most of the upper middle class and wealthy, and there's no sign of inflation, as far as the eye can see. but corporate profits can't stay high when american consumers whose spending is 70% of the u.s. economy are this pessimistic about the future. they're just not going to spend. american companies won't be able to make up the difference in foreign markets. europe is careening into a recession. japan is still in deep trouble. china's growth has sloat wed. profits are the highest share of the u.s. economy on record, wages are the lowest. but this imbalance can't and won't last." >> can't and won't. and look what's happening on wall street. their doing better, willie, than ever before. ever before. the past four years, wall street

has exploded over the past four years, real income has dropped for middle class americans. the poverty rate's gone up. one in four americans are on food stamps. you talk about two americas, john edwards is right. over the past four years, and it's certainly not fthe president's fault lalone, it's washington's fault in general. but over the past four years, you look at the numbers, the rich are getting richer, the poor are getting poorer, wall street is doing great, main street is suffering. >> dow jones hovering around 14,000, which is a huge number. if you read reaction from this number that came out yesterday, from economists left and right, by the way, they say, don't read too much into it because of what you're talking about. that business investment is on the rise, consumer spending is doing okay, housing is coming back a little bit. so this feels like it's more related to a lack of government spending, cuts in defense spending than it is about some of the important consumer things that we look for the in the economy.

>> hopefully it acts as a catalyst for congress and the senate to understand that if they get some deal around the fiscal cliff and around the spending cuts, sequestration to come, and two, we invest in the things that are growing jobs and growing wages, particularly energy, we'll have a natural gas explosion -- >> are you going to make a point? >> i'm just saying, this should be a sign to those in politics, you know, don't play with this. there's so many good things. there are a lot of corporate money overseas waiting to come back, profits are up. it's just waiting for that last one or two levers to be pushed. and hopefully we as a country and the congress can do it. >> we want to get kelly o'donnell in on the conversation, and for that we go to the testimony that took place on capitol hill yesterday. former congresswoman gabrielle giffords, who survived a mass shooting in arizona two years ago, made an unexpected appearance in front of the senate judiciary committee, reading off a page of

hand-written remarks. she urged the congress to act now on gun reform. >> too many children are dying. too many children. we must do something. it will be hard. but the time is now. you must act. be bold. be courageous. americans are counting on you. thank you. >> that says it all. giffords' husband, mark kelly, says expanding background checks for gun buyers should be a top priority, but the nra's chief executive, yesterday, even after that, refused to give any ground. >> we know from what happened in tucson that if there was an effective background check,

which includes having the mental health data and the person's drug use, in the case of the tucson shooter, into the system, and if, in fact, there was no gun show loophole, i would con tend that he would have had a very difficult time getting a gun. if background checks are good enough for somebody who's a federal firearms licensed dealer, like walmart, for instance, where i just purchased a gun a couple months ago, a hunting rifle, and i had to go through a background check, why isn't that good for other sales? >> my problem with background checks is you're never going to get criminals to go through universal background checks. i mean, all of the law-abiding people, you'll create an normal federal bureaucracy. we aren't going to prosecute any of the bad guys if they do catch one. and none of it makes any sense in the real world. >> i don't get that. >> senator lindsey graham and others at the hearing made the

case for higher capacity magazines. >> would i be a reasonable american to want my family to have the 15-round magazine in a semi-automatic weapon, to make sure if there's true intruders, she don't run out of bullets. am i an unreasonable person for saying that if that situation, the 15-round magazine makes sense? there can be a situation where a mother runs out of bullets because of something we do here. six bullets in the hands of a woman trying to defend her children may not be enough. >> an assault weapon in the hands of a young woman defending her babies in her home becomes a defense weapon. and the peace of mind that woman has as she's facing three, four, five violent attackers, intruders in her home with her children screaming in the background, the peace of mind that she has, knowing that she has a scary-looking gun gives

her more courage when she's fighting hardened violent criminals. >> and therein lies the problem with having to defend assault weapons. because if you go out and try to defend assault weapons, then you end up looking like a jackass. it's just -- seriously -- >> i'm sorry, but that's true. >> willie -- >> that was gale trotter, a gun advocate for the independent women's forum. >> and before that, lindsey graham, who said, am i unreasonable to think that a woman needs a high-capacity magazine, rambo, in the house, to defend -- come on! seriously?! this is so stupid. and wayne lapierre saying, there

are criminals out there that aren't going to be a bide by background checks, so we just shouldn't have any background checks. willie, why do we have any laws on the books? there are terrorists that are going end to up getting into the united states of america, so why do we even try to stop al qaeda? right? they say they're going to attack us again, so why don't we just -- why don't we let down all of our defenses and just give up? >> oh, god! >> one of the problems or the problem, i think, with the story they told over and over again about the georgia woman with the two infants is she did defend herself. she shot the guy five times and he left the home. she had a gun with six rounds in it, she was able to defend herself. >> but she didn't kill him. >> on your other point about wayne lapierre and the universal background checks, a cbs poll shows 92% of americans favor them, including 89% of republicans and 93% of gun household. people with guns. 93%. >> willie, these people are such -- wayne lapierre is from

the survivalist wing of the nra. and if you're landsy graham or other republicans that are going to march off the cliff with wayne lapierre, you're a fool. you're going to get what you deserve and more republicans are going to lose. nobody -- listen to me -- nobody -- listen to me, and colin powell and other republicans warning about how this extremism is going to cost new 2012, it's going to cost us in 2014 and 2016. they can decide. do they want to start winning elections again or not? it's stupidity. >> kelly o'donnell, you were on capitol hill yesterday, do you think what we saw in that room over the course of a long day will have impact now legislatively on the outcome of this whole gun debate? >> i think one of the things that's so important about watching this, when you distill it down, you see the theater and the extreme points of view, but it's really about what congress has to work through, because these ideas are not easy. you can come with a scenario about why an individual, and i noticed they tended to only

speak of women who needed to defend themselves, which, you know, perhaps is an effective argument, you can find those scenarios. you can do the survivalest thing, like after katrina or after the riots in l.a., where there are pockets of anarchy that might exist for a period of a few days in the united states, where people might say, i've got to have a weapon. then you've got the heartfelt, emotional testimony of gabrielle giffords and her husband. it's so important to remember, gabrielle giffords is partially blind, she is partially paralyzed. here's somebody who i used to talk to in the hallways and now you could see her struggle to get those carefully chosen words out. that's a very real example of what can happen. coming up, senator claire mccaskill joins us ahead of what could be a tough hearing today for chuck hagel, nominated to be the next secretary of defense. also ahead, the man behind some of the biggest names in music from hall and oates to

celine dion. first, a check on the forecast. bill karins? >> what happens when the new york city airports have 60-mile-per-hour winds. let me show you the airport delays right now at laguardia, 3 1/2 hour delays. jfk not quite as bad at 45. the winds are still howling, and i'm sure they'll be building and increasing as we get the information in. the worst of the winds are over with. it now cleared cape cod and still strong gusts, southern coast of maine. but the worst of it is over, as far as the damaging winds. we have a couple hundred thousand people without power in new england this morning, from this storm system. today the temperatures fall in new england. look at the highs today, buffalo and pittsburgh. and there is some cold, i mean, some of the coldest air we've seen this wirnter, racing down off canada. right now, north dakota, the windchill, don't go out, minus 48 degree windchill in rawla, bismarck, 43, that is headed for kansas city and chicago during the day today. it's already cold there and it

will get worse. as far as the snow goes, that cold air over the warm great lakes, the snow machine is on from cleveland to erie to buffalo. almost all of michigan and some spots there of ohio and indiana, careful driving with those snow bands today. forecast looks great, though, the on exception, texas to california. everyone else is still feeling this storm system, but beautiful weather on tap for the areas of the west coast over the weekend. you're watching "morning joe," we're brewed by starbucks. [ female announcer ] going to sleep may be easy, but when you wake up

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we are using the power of puppies to predict who's going to win the super bowl and here's how it works. right here are two bowls with food. one marked ravens, the other marked 49ers. and behind this wall are five puppies. the objective is to race to one of those bowls as fast -- are you listening to me? hey! don't fall asleep. not all at once. here we go. come on, guys! there you go. go for it! yeah. any one of the bowls. there you go. now, he went back. he doesn't want to do it -- there you go! you can do it. there you go, take it! uh-oh. it's the ravens! oh, my goodness! there, they did it! oh, my goodness! >> 20 past the hour.

welcome back to "morning joe." a beautiful shot of washington. joining us now from washington, d.c., democratic senator, claire mccaskill. senator mccaskill is a member of the armed services committee, which will hear testimony today on the nomination of chuck hagel for defense secretary. dan seymore and mike barnicle are back with us, and, and cnbc's brian sullivan joins the table. hello, brian. >> hello, mika. newman! >> it is like you're newman. are you okay with that? i tried that on heilemann and he was deeply hurt. >> i'm okay with that. >> you are newman. >> take it easy. >> i don't know about that. he's all newman. okay, senator mccaskill, great to have you on the show, for so many reasons. how are you doing? >> i'm well, thanks. >> a big day today. how do you think it's going to go for chuck hagel and what are your concerns, if any? >> well, i think he's going to

have an opportunity, finely, to speak strongly to how important our alliance with israel is. i think it's really important to note that none of the major organizations that advocate for israel on capitol hill are opposing chuck hagel. and it's only the extreme groups that have come out so strong ly against his nomination. and he has a lot to offer our country. i want to hear his testimony, i've had a chance to visit with him personally. i am certainly reassured that he understands the importance of our alliance with israel and i hope that most of the senate gives him a fair chance. because if they do, i think he'll be confirmed easily. >> so when she talks about extreme groups, she's also talking about dan seymore -- >> exactly. >> and people for the seenor way. >> i would just say, the american jewish committee have come out with deep concerns about senator hagel. the anti-defamation league, even

the national democratic jewish council, back when chuck hagel was being talked about for positions in republican administrations came out, lashing out against him. >> dan, you and i both know that if chuck hagel presented a threat to israel, aipac would be swarming over the hill. there would be many other organizations that would be swarming over the hill. you wouldn't have chuck schumer coming out as strongly as he has for chuck hagel. these are, in fact, extreme, the extreme group in this advocacy area. >> let me ask you a question, senator. do you think when chuck hagel said that israel keeps palestinians caged up like animals, which i'm not taking out of context -- when chuck hagel is one of two senators, one of two, to vote against sanctions against iran, or fewer than a dozen to oppose labeling hezbollah a terrorist group. do you think that someone like me has concerns about that? you think that's an extreme position? >> listen, i don't have a problem with concerns. but i don't think that they are putting those positions or votes

in context of his entire record. let's look at his record. an enlisted man, who knows, really, what war is like, unlike many who have served in this job, he will be the first enlisted man ever to hold this position at the department of defense. somebody who understands how congress works, which is a very important kill set for the secretary of defense. somebody who has served on the armed services committee and gets how this process should work in terms of checks and balances. he's got an awful lot to offer, and if you take his entire record in context, he was a conservative republican from nebraska, for god's sake. he was not some kind of left wing liberal from the west coast. so i just think if everyone gives him a chance to speak for himself about how strongly he feels about protecting israel, about holding iran in check when it comes to nuclear weapons, i think that people will be reassured. now, maybe today he won't reassure people. and that's why i've not said one way or another, because i want

to wait and hear his testimony. but having visited with him, i think some of this criticism is taken out of context and is unfair. >> senator, so we've got a lot of things going on in the middle east right now. obviously, yesterday, israel launched a raid in syria. this breaking from the associated press just a few minutes ago, syria and iran are now threatening to retaliate against israel for air raids, into syria. does -- what do we expect to hear, not only from chuck hagel, but what's your position about israel's right to launch raids into syria, if they believe that it's to stop armed shipments to hezbollah? >> well, first of all, i believe that israel has a sovereign right to protect its own nation. and i think that is their decision and we need to respect their decision. on the other hand, we also have to be prepared to do what we need to do to protect the united states of america and, ancillary to that, to protect israel. so i think it is a difficult

situation. the internal politics in israel has shifted slightly with the latest election, where a more moderate party did very well in the elections and kind of weakened beating netanyahu to some extent, internally in israel, and that is even why it is more important that we remain absolutely staunch in our support of israel and their ability to protect themselves. they're in the most dangerous part of the world. they have a right to protect themselves. >> so, claire, yesterday, dramatic testimony on the hill, gabby giffords coming to the senate, testifying. also, some arguments put forth that are still inexplicable to me. but i want to ask you about the real challenge for president obama right now. the house, obviously, poses a great challenge, but the first challenge is getting gun control legislation, actually, assault weapon regulation through the democratic senate. we think universal background checks are going to pass.

that certainly is looking good. but what about these democrats from moderate districts? how are they going to vote on assault weapons and how are they going to vote on these-capacity magazines? and how are you going to vote? do you think we should be able to more strictly regulation high-capacity magazines and assault weapons? >> i think we have right to more strictly regulate high-capacity magazines and assault weapons. i think what we've got to do is find that place, which is tricky, with this issue, that we can get enough votes to get it across the finish line. you know, you say universal background checks is a foregone conclusion. did you hear wayne lapierre yesterday? >> oh, my god! >> you've got 91% of americans supporting this -- >> i know! i know! >> wayne lapierre's defeatest attitude -- i won't say it's un-american, but it certainly isn't george patton like. he's basically say we can do

nothing, nothing. >> we have to convince america, joe, that i'm a second amendment advocate. i was raised in a household where my family had to have cream of mushroom soup in the pantry all the time, because mom had to put it on what dad shot to make it edible. i was raised in a hunting culture in rural missouri. so it is very important in my state that we protect the second amendment. we've got to get to the point that people will believe that we can love the second amendment, but also that i don't need to buy my new grandson's parents a semi-automatic weapon to put in the stroller as they go around, strolling my new grandson through the park. you know, this notion that women need 30-round clips to protect their babies in their homes, i don't know have many mothers that want a 30-round clip in their home, around their babies. >> it's a ridiculous concept. >> it is really extreme.

so we've got to find that moderate middle. and i want to be part of the group that helps us find that moderate middle, that allows us to actually get something done, rather than talking at each other from the opposite ends of the spectrum. >> so, senator, you just referenced, you know, convincing the country. and you just talked about the moderate middle. so my question to you is, do you think it's possible to convince some members of the senate that common sense can take precedence over fear of losing an election? >> i think it can. i think it can. and especially, you know, here's the bottom line. our country is a great nation. and can our country shrug in indifference after our children are massacred sitting in the classroom of a public school? can we just say, "never mind, it doesn't matter"? we are a great nation and we ought to be strong enough to respond thouo this strategy, to

this slaughter of innocent children in a way that makes sense, that protects the second amendment, but also that says to people out there, we've decided that this is a priority. and it should be. >> why do not more public people stand up when wayne lapierre testifies, after he testifies, about the fear of the government coming and taking guns out of your home. why don't more public people -- >> which, by the way, can i just stop you -- the constitution does not allow that. the second amendment does not allow that. the united states supreme court does not allow that. scalia, thomas, alito, roberts, kennedy all together said, mike, that americans have a right to keep and bear arms, handguns, shotguns, hunting rifles to protect their families. but that the federal government can regulate these other things. wayne lapierre, if he says or ted cruz says that first they're going to take your assault weapons and then they're going to come for your handguns, they're lying. they can't do that. it's unconstitutional. >> the second amendment, though, mentions nothing about

ammunition. senators, there's something you can do on that side. we're talking about the gun side. can we make ammunition uneconomic? >> well, i think what we have to do is look at the framework that has been put out there by senator feinstein and others and then see how much of it we can get enough votes for, to get it passed through the senate. and how much of it will actually succeed in getting to the president's desk. this is about the politically possible. now, having said that, more senators need to realize that the nra, giving you an "f," is not the end of your political clear. i'm from a very pro-gun state. i'm from a state that mitt romney won by almost ten points. my state rejected extremism. they said, we don't want the extreme view. there's no question todd akin would be voting against this. there's no question that todd akin would be voting against chuck hagel. you know, most states want someone who's willing to find that common ground. and we can find it on this as long as the nra is not the one driving the debate.

>> all right, senator claire mccaskill, my favorite senator, and now you see why. you make perfect sense and you're absolutely right, especially on guns. >> what about dan seymore? >> i don't agree with him at all. i like him. he drives me crazy. >> he does remember the luggage. >> he's a male. >> when i leave the set, you say i'm your favorite -- >> senator mccaskill? >> she says you're a senior citizen. >> claire, thank you. >> thank you. >> i'm so glad you're there and you look great. you're looking fitter than ever and under extreme circumstances. i think that's an incredible feat. >> thank you. >> thank you very much. take care. >> okay. >> see you later. coming up, he's one of the most successful executives in music history, working with artists ranging from michael jackson to celine deon to billy joel. tommy mottola joins us next to tell us his story on "morning joe." ♪

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with us now, former ceo of sony music entertainment, tommy mottola. he's the man behind such successes as hall & oates, mariah carey, and the explosion

of the latin pop scene. and he's out now with the new book, "hitmaker: the man and his music." tommy, good to see you again. >> good morning. >> the list, amazing, hall & oates, michael jackson, carly simon, celine deon, gloria estefan, billy joel, on and on and on and on. a very remarkable career. >> very privileged and fortunate to have had the ability to work with all those great people. >> so you know we have these shows like "american idol" and all those, and we've watched the process of a voice breaking through. how is it that you know when you hear it or see it, or is it more of a process than an immediate reaction? >> it's a process and an immediate reaction. it takes two things. a great song and a great voice. sometimes it just takes a great song, because at the end of the day, it's really all about the song. you have a great songwriter like bob dylan, who was never, you know, applauded to be the greatest singer in the world, but yet his songs became poetry

and became folklore. >> let's -- go ahead, mike, i'm sorry. >> no, you go ahead. >> i was going to say, let's talk about the record industry in general, though. and one of the problems with where we are today compared to where we were when you were growing up in it, and i was growing up listening to it, a guy like bruce springsteen could come out, he could put out two, three albums that didn't hit, you could go hear him, which you did, and talk about it in the book, hear him with a couple hundred people listening to him sing "rosalita," and the first time i saw that, it just blew my mind, and you could sort of play it out until "born to run" came out and "hit me" exploded. that doesn't happen today. >> it was almost expected that you would develop an artist over two or three and sometimes even four albums. so when you entered into an agreement with an artist, you would think about it on a long-term basis. it's going to take this amount of time for them to develop, this amount of time for them to go out and perform and learn how

to do it correctly. today, the economics do not allow that. >> why is that? >> well, you can release a number one record, let's say it comes out and it goes to number one, a single, the album may only sell 50, 60,000. that's not even enough to keep the lights on. whereas in the past, when the supply chain was more controlled, you know, whether it was from the inception of the artist to working with retail and radio and distribution and all the things that -- >> you controlled everything. >> when you control the supply chain, you can have a much bigger result. so today the consumer is the one in charge. and it's a big difference. and they may just want that one song. they may not care about the body of work. so it's changed the economics dramatically, which does not allow the companies to develop talent the way they used to. >> and it's also, mike, why we aren't going to have artists with great catalogs 10, 15 years from now. we look back, and god, you just could keep naming them all day.

>> you think psy's going to come out with hit after hit after hit? come on, joe. >> that was part of the question i was going to ask, how have things like itunes and pandora and spotify changed things for the producer as well as the artist? >> the artists receive pennies, the record companies receive pennies compared to the revenue streams that were there before. the wholesale price of a record was somewhere around $4, compared to now, what you might receive from itunes, which could be half of that or less, on an album. >> on an album. >> on an album. and this is a time when albums are not selling nearly what they used to sell. so the whole picture has changed dramatically and everyone is scrambling to figure out how to monetize and harness this, because the one thing that the internet has done, though, it's created a more insatiable appetite for music than ever.

so the consumer wants music more than ever, has music more than ever, more is available, because anyone can upload a clip and a song. >> i used to spend $500 a year on cds, then $300 a year on itunes, now about $100 a year on spotify or mog, which is a spot any clo fy clone and a good one at that. how can a singer make money now? can they? >> it's very, very difficult. because basically the album sales were an extremely lucrative source of revenue. and then from there, the live performances and the merchandising. so once one of those revenue streams has dried up, and the ability for that to create the platform from which they can get all of those other sources of income, you know, doesn't exist, it makes it much more difficult. and that's why you have the big -- if you look at any of the big shows out there, it's still the top ten same people, all the time, selling the tickets. whether it's bruce or madonna or

u2. that's it. you know, occasionally, there'll be package shows, where you can have breakthroughs. although the festivals, i must say, have been a source of breaking a lot of new talent. >> well, that's what i was going to ask you, as the mother of a budding songwriter, like, how do you break in? it almost seems just overwhelming. >> it is overwhelming, but if your child is a songwriter, that's an advantage as opposed to just being a singer. i mean, because the songs are everything. you know, without a script, you have no movie, without a song, you have no record, no music. >> and i know it's hard with your storied career, to boil it all down to one great moment or one great artist, but can you think of a highlight, that as you went back, when you were writing this book, you just said to yourself, because it passed by so quickly when you were doing it, you stopped to yourself and thought, that was really special. what was the one moment? >> i was so fortunate and so

blessed to have so many of those. it was almost like a kid being taken to fao schwartz and saying, you know, okay, what do you want? well, let me live here for the rest of my life. so when you get a chance to -- i mean, the first artist that i actually signed and worked with were hall & oates, and remember them walking into my office, playing me those song, and from there, all of the other artists that i mentioned, whether it was carly simon or mellencamp or whatever, but then going to sony and having the ability to work with the greats like bruce springsteen and billy and then discovering mariah and celine and shakira, it was overwhelmingly satisfying experience that is hard to describe. >> unbelievable. >> you know, joe, as we were talking before we began this segment, and tommy grew up near arthur avenue in the bronx, still the site of a couple of great italian restaurants. >> we still go back.

>> his life could have been titled "a bronx tale," one of the great movies of all time, but it could have been "a bronx tale." >> i told him, the funny thing is that chaz just did the audio book and at the end of it, he said, this is just another bronx tale. >> i love it. sounds like the making of a movie. the book is "hitmaker" tommy mottola, great to have you on the show. >> thank you so much. up next, brian sullivan, newman, will take us through his top business headlines this morning.

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time for business before the bell with cnbc's brian sullivan. got a lot of stuff to talk about. bad numbers yesterday, today, better numbers on personal income. >> yeah, personal income jumped

2.6%, which is a good thing. although, listen, it's one of these mixed bags. i think i'm deciding that everything we see from the fourth quarter or at least december is going to be sort of -- have an asterisk. it's going to be kind of the p.e.d. number. income jumped because people were paying themselves a ton of money ahead of the higher tax rate this year. but for the most part, you had the higher income numbers, which is a good thing. >> that's a good thing. you're also fog a story in the "wall street journal" today about unions and health care. >> it's getting a lot of play out there. and the story is basically this, folks. it's in the journal, which is that part of obama care allows caps on precipitation drug spending, and some unions, apparently, are just realizing this. and they're pushing back on the administration to make sure they don't have these caps, because they're saying, that's going to drive up our medical costs, our health care costs, more than we thought, which means, we're going to be less competitive in the marketplace. so according to the journal, the unions are pushing back on the obama administration about this

cap. and they're asking for federal subsidies on top of their work insurance. >> all right. and let's talk about facebook now. they've just had a brutal year. but some pretty good news in the fourth quarter. >> hey, the stock is up 70%, 7-0, since september, joe. mobile ad revenue is up. that's what everyone wants to see. 70% the stock is up since september. mobile ad revenue up 23%, which is accelerating. look around the table, okay. mika with her iphone, iphone -- >> soon to be samsung. >> barnicle, you've got an abacus, i've got an iphone, but there's two laptops. that's the way it's going. if facebook can't monetize that rather than that, they're going to be in trouble. you figure this out, folks, you're in good shape. >> so we've got iphones around here. does blackberry have a shot of get back? >> good job, by the way, they changed their name from research in motion officially to

blackberry. their share has gone from 44% to 2. are you willing to carry around two devices? that's it. we're all locked into ecosystems. >> i see a lot of people carrying around two devices. >> that's because corporate devices give it to them. now they're allowing it all on this. i've got one device. that's their challenge. >> i want one device with one charger, one type of charger, and i want the device to not -- >> and i want one ring to rule them all. "lord of the rings" reference, mika. >> brian sullivan, thank you so much, for whatever you just did. you can catch brian on cnbc's "street signs" wednesday weekdays at 2:00 p.m. on tomorrow's show, from the academy of award-nominated film "silver linings playbook," bradley cooper is going to be here. >> and i saw it. he said he would come back after i saw the movie. and i did not walk out. >> it is a great movie. we'll be right back with the best of late night. ♪ if it wasn't for you

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